We've got a politician in America who is
sharing on social media AI generated
images of himself as a musclebound
American hero or with his face carved
onto Mount Rushmore. And if that feels
very familiar, well, that is entirely
the point because this is not Donald
Trump. No, no. This is the California
Governor Gavin Newsome fighting back on
Donald Trump's territory. It's being
called going dark woke. So, is this a
media strategy that could help the
Democrats fight back? Welcome to
America.
[Music]
>> Hello, it is Sarah here in the BBC's
Washington bureau.
>> It's Anthony sitting next to Sarah here
in Washington.
>> And it is Mariana aka misinformation in
the worldwide headquarters in London
again, but alone because Justin's on his
holidays.
Now, Mariana Anthony, you're very well
aware that one of the questions our
Americanists ask us the most often is
where are the Democrats? What are they
doing? Why are they not fighting back
against all of the things that um Donald
Trump is doing? Um and the answers to
that are many and varied, but one has
popped up in the form of Gavin Newsome,
the California governor, who's always
been good at attracting attention, but
he has formulated this new strategy, it
seems, um to take on Donald Trump. I
mean, listen to this. for instance,
which is what he said before signing the
Election Rigging Response Act, uh, which
was passed in California in response to
Republican plans to redraw the political
map in Texas.
>> We're here because Donald Trump on
January 6 tried to light democracy on
fire, tried to wreck this country, tried
to steal an election, as Alex just said,
by trying to dial in for 11 almost
12,000 votes. And here we are in open
and plain sight before one vote is cast
in the 2026 midterm election. And here
he is once again trying to rig the
system. He doesn't play by a different
set of rules. He doesn't believe in the
rules.
>> And as a consequence, we need to
disabuse ourselves of the way things
have been done.
>> It's not good enough to just hold hands,
have a candle light vigil, and talk
about the way the world should be.
We have got to recognize the cards that
have been dealt
>> and we have got to meet fire with fire.
I think it's really interesting this
fire fire with fire idea applied to the
social media realm in particular because
one of the things that Donald Trump has
by far
exceeded at certainly compared to his
sort of Democratic counterparts is the
ability to use social media to engage
people who might otherwise not be that
engaged in politics to reach people
through alternative media channels and
otherwise. Um and Gavin Newsome has been
one of the first people from the
Democratic Party who's actually been
trying to do that. You know, this
podcast that he started doing um but
also posting on social media. So, um on
X, for example, where quite a lot of
perhaps more liberal politicians have
either um been very, you know, by the
rules, formulaic, quite sort of
statementike, but in that way that um is
not very exciting and therefore doesn't
really get promoted by the
recommendation systems. or some of them
don't really engage with it in the way
they used to at all. He's actually
started going very much sort of
toe-to-toe with Donald Trump. So,
there's this one meme that he shared
which um it was his his press office
which again these kind of uh the the
press office for for the governor or any
governor are usually kind of quite
boring but they've been sharing things
like this this meme. It shows um Gavin
Newsome on the the it looks like the
cover of Time magazine and um it's it's
like long live the king and a successful
liberation day. Thank you. It's in
capitals which is parodying Donald Trump
obviously almost always writing in
capitals certainly on truth social his
site and this whole king thing again has
been a huge meme in the MAGA world the
make America great again base they often
have have shared memes of Donald Trump
in this kind of like king angelic way
and he reshares them and so on and so
forth. So, it's very much like playing
him at his own game and slightly taking
the mickey out of it, I guess, but also
using it to be like, "Right, well, we
can be like this, too." I think that
there are positives to that in so much
as it gets you the visibility, the
eyeballs, and people see you as being
able to sort of take a bit of a joke or
take, you know, to to not be very pfaced
or too serious. But the flip side of it
is that a lot of the people you're
trying to appeal to possibly don't like
that strategy very much from Donald
Trump. they don't find it's like taking
politics seriously and it might not
necessarily appeal to the people he
wants and Donald Trump has kind of
already done it. So does it work to just
do what he does like do you win over the
MAGA base? They're not going to go for
Gavin Newsome surely. I don't know. I
don't know what you guys make of the
memes in the capitals etc.
>> Yeah, satire is difficult obviously. I
mean it's a fine line to walk and
there's certainly been politicians uh
who have opposed Donald Trump who have
tried to do it. I remember Marco Rubio
in 2016 uh when he was running against
Donald Trump for the presidential
nomination was making fun of the size of
his hands and and and taking swipes at
at Trump that way. And there are plenty
of others who have who have done that
and ended up, you know, demeaning
themselves, making themselves smaller by
comparison because Trump was just so
uniquely good at the the the kind of uh
uh derisive humor and mockery that other
other politicians just doesn't come
naturally to. I I will say looking at
this, I mean, it is, as you say, it's
it's pretty sophisticated. It it I think
uh I' I've talked to people on the left
who have found it amusing. Obviously,
they don't think this is a way to
actually win, but at least it kind of
up the spirit of the base and and
up the spirit of the base and and
makes them feel like someone is is
trying to go toe-to-toe with Donald
Trump. I think there's going to have to
be more more to it than that. There's
obviously going to have to be a positive
message and a message that will connect
with with voters because that was the
key to Donald Trump. It wasn't just the
mockery. In fact, maybe it was even in
spite of the mockery that he won. He won
because uh he he promised voters that he
could make things better and shake
things up. Uh and uh and that, you know,
that the economic message and that
message to kind of the the populist base
in this country was was probably the key
to his victory, not being able to write
in all caps and and picking fights with
Rosie O'Donnell or whoever else. But
also I I think that this is a really
important point which is all of this
social media strategy is across the
board. It's good for getting eyeballs
but it's only good if you have something
for the eyeballs to consume or look at.
And one of the problems that Kla Harris
grappled with if we cast our minds back
to the brat summer of 2024 etc was that
it felt really light in terms of ideas
and policy and quite dissatisfying. And
so it was a kind of trend that caught
your eye, but then there wasn't that
much. You know, some some people would
disagree, but others would say, "Oh,
there wasn't that much to it really."
Whereas with Donald Trump, it felt like
the ideas that are being represented
through his different social media posts
and strategies are clear. Again, whether
you like or hate them, they are very
clear. And I think that will be the test
for Gavin Newsome. Like he he can use
this kind of satire to draw people in or
to give an impression of what he's like
as a person. Doesn't take himself too
seriously, is willing to sort of face up
to Donald Trump. all those kinds of
messages, but those are ultimately a
little bit futile if there's not more to
go on. And I would say that I'm really
interested by when when we when we heard
that that clip from him and how he was
talking about the, you know, the
democracy stuff and the threat to
democracy and we're here because of
January the 6th, like if he's going to
go down that route, the kind of Donald
Trump is a threat to democracy thing.
That didn't really work out like last
time around. Actually, it felt like
people kind of had got over it. They
were like, me, was it really? it, you
know, again, regardless of what you
actually think about whether it was, it
didn't feel like it landed in the same
way as points about the economy or
immigration do. And I just I just wonder
whether he risks falling into a trap
that other Democrats have before, which
is actually the whole Trump is a threat
to you doesn't really do very well when
you're trying to win over that middle
group of people who voted for him last
time.
>> Yeah. And that's kind of been a
challenge for for Newsome. uh and if you
track what he's been doing over the past
few years, he actually started uh a
podcast and on that podcast he was
bringing on conservatives like Steve
Bannon and Charlie Kirk uh and got a lot
of criticism for platforming people that
uh Democratic voters, Democratic primary
voters who are going to be casting their
ballots in the presidential election in
2028 just revile. So, uh, he actually
seemed like he was costing himself some
support within the Democratic party by
appearing to transparently move to the
middle and and reach out to to possibly
Trump voters or at least engage in
dialogue with them. Uh, also early on
this year when Donald Trump came out to
to visit and review the fire damage in
Los Angeles, Newsome met him on the
tarmac. They shook hands. They talked
about how they could work together. Uh
so it seemed like in the beginning uh
Newsome's strategy was consiliation and
working with Trump and and also reaching
out to to right-wing voters and then you
get this kind of handbrake turn and part
of it was because of the immigration
enforcement in California and the
National Guard. All of a sudden Nuome
was put in a position where uh he he he
felt like he had to object to what
Donald Trump was doing this massive
intervention at the federal level uh in
Los Angeles after these demonstrations.
And since then, that's when he has been
tacking back to the left with this
social media strategy and and these
sharp criticisms of Donald Trump. And
and he has now been getting criticism
from some people who say, "Well, you're
using your social media feed in order to
to engage in mockery and and kind of
belittlement when a a state governor
should be using it for things like
informing the public about emergency
issues or fires or or or as a as a means
of communication." and he actually
responded to that as well. And this is
what Newsome had to say.
>> If you've got issues with what I'm
putting out, you sure as hell should
have concerns about what he's putting
out as president. Um so to the extent
it's gotten some attention. I'm pleased.
Um but I think the the deeper question
is um how have we allowed the
normalization
of his tweets through social posts over
the course of the last many years uh to
go without similar scrutiny.
>> So so wait a minute and now he's he's
saying this is all just an attempt to
draw attention to how bad Donald Trump
is with his social media and so it's not
just to go toe-to-toe but you know to
start a a serious conversation. I mean
that that's a criticism of Gavin
Newsome, right? is that he's a little
vapid, he's a little superficial, and he
tends to go whichever way the wind
blows. And now just, you know, what I've
outlined, I mean, we're going back and
forth several times.
>> Yeah. I mean, I guess but the thing is
that there is there is this Donald Trump
exception uh which I don't think we can
ever get around and no other politician
certainly that we've seen yet is going
to ever be able to replicate where he
can do outrageous things whether it's on
his social media feed or ridiculous
things he says at rallies whatever it is
and he gets away with it because he's
Donald Trump in a way absolutely nobody
else could they would be called
ridiculous they would be called
hypocritical they would be laughed out
of town but somehow Donald Trump he's
just able to to to shrug it off and it's
all part of his appeal. Um, and of
course, you know, it's it's that sort of
reach across appeal that I guess the
likes of Gavin Newsome are trying to
replicate by, as you said, Anthony,
having Steve Bannon, Charlie Kirk on his
podcast. The problem with that, he took
some heat for it here on Americas as
well as in other places was that he
sounded far too chummy with them. Like
he was really deliberately trying to
point up what friends they were rather
than having a discussion of the issues
about where they disagreed. I mean, I
think the key thing any of these people,
any of these want to be challenges have
to do, I don't know what you think about
this, Mariana, is a much much more
deeper conversation probably on these
right-wing podcasts on Joe Rogan or
wherever else it is that um Republicans
have successfully been getting their
message out to people who are not
political junkies. Who among these
Democratic contenders can sit for three
hours and talk to Theo Vaughn or Joe
Rogan and be amusing but be persuasive
and disagree but you know instead of
getting into a punchup that's surely
that's the the the magic sauce the
secret sauce isn't it that you're going
to need going into 2028.
One tiny last thing for me but I do
think is you know we we are talking
about this thinking about the kinds of
people that do engage with alternative
media or podcast don't like traditional
media but I always think that we we
shouldn't and I know that we don't do
this but it's worth saying underestimate
um people because actually that the
reason people turn to those outlets is
just because it's it's like the normal
way of consuming content now but there
is a huge amount of appetite and we know
we know this ourselves for like really
sort of thoughtful,
more discursive conversation. And I
think that there's an ability to appeal
again to voters, if you were the
Democrats, through actually like we're
not going to go toe-to-toe with Donald
Trump. We're not going to fight fire
with fire, but we're going to de develop
our own strategy that actually feels
like a bit of a breather from this like
constantly angry
social media world that everyone else is
inhabiting. There's probably a way of
doing that that's that's that could be
quite clever. Um, but no one's worked
out how to do it, so when they do, we'll
talk about it if they ever do.
>> That's it for today. If you want to
listen to any of our other episodes, you
can find them wherever it is you get
your podcasts. Bye-bye.
Heat.